Tune duplexer vna With all three tuning screws out and the two coupling screws also out, I start by tuning the cavity closest to the return loss bridge. 15:1 (return loss about 23 dB), therefore two different notch frequencies were displayed between going between TX a nd RX ports vs between either TX or RX port to antenna port, without changing para que se utiliza y como se calibra un duplexor compacto con un nano vna Once you get close you should connect the duplexer in the field and use an external rf generator to generate a signal to peak up the final tuning 'over the air'. This is because duplexer tuning is impacted by the equipment and cable impedances, which will not be the same as the impedances of the test equipment used to do the initial tuning. The first video in this series will give you a le Just my opinion based on experience, using the cheap Nano VNA's that you get off of Amazon are not good enough to tune a duplexer well. I agree with you about the using VNA with the individual cavities. Personally I'd tune a duplexer for each frequency and when deploying them don't stick them on busy RF sites because it probably will puke and won't work worth a beans. I am also able to give up some functionalities, because most often I need a VNA for duplexer tuning - nowadays the corac would be more useful in the 5GHz band Notch Duplexer. The dip in the graph can be seen moving down the band. Typically hooking the input into the antenna portion of the duplexer and then The transmit side of the duplexer is tuned to notch the receiver, so. This is because duplexer tuning is impacted by the equipment This duplexer is designed to connect one transmitter and one receiver to a single VHF antenna. Controversial. This video shows how to tune a 1. THE CAVITY DUPLEXER - W6NBC 14. Of course that is if you don't have a signal analy I have nanoVNA myself and its capabilities are sufficient for me to tune the antenna working at 7 or 14MHz in the field (it can even handle 144MHz quite well). They all have walk throughs on tuning BP-BR duplexers with a R2001 (without a tracking gen). Can the miniVNA Tiny be used to tune repeater duplexers? Relevant link. • Select “Start Frequency” and set to the lower end of the test frequency range. Band Reject Duplexer. 5 to 5 MHz centered on the desired tuned frequency. The following steps are for tuning the duplexer reject frequencies. Any advice on how to tune these things? I notice I have to turn the screws to find the rods; since that is kind of weird I think I might be doing something wrong. This same setup and procedure About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright Mini Lathe – turning a duplexer cavity ** You do not have to spend £1000s on the spectrum analyser. The repeater uses a notch-type duplexer and a band-pass filter on its receiver. I've been hunting a good VNA for duplexer tuning & other things. Disregard actual measurement in dB all though you can compare the notch bandwidth with -without the preamp to obtain a reasonable estimate of attenuation. That's a Tx-Rx 28-70-02A duplexer. • The SWR from the duplexer end when the TG/SA was connected between TX or RX port and antenna port with a 50 ohm termination on the unused port by contrast was 1. The most affordable such instrument for some time has If you're comfortable going the DIY route and the tuning is at least in the ballpark, you can tie an analog voltmeter (or oscilloscope) into your repeater's RSSI output and get a baseline reading on the noise floor there, assuming it's a 'reject only' flat-pack duplexer internal to the repeater itself commonly found on the 1225, you'd loosen up I am using a SAA-2N NANOVNA with the Nano VNA app for PC the notches vary from 85ish to 103ish i have tried to get them tighter but i believe my resolution just isnt good enough was just trying to save $200 for tuning Duplexer Tuning The two most common types of duplexer you will find are the Band Pass/Reject duplexer and the notch duplexer (also known as a "mobile" duplexer). New. Next to the second cavity and tune it down until the dip is bigger. , SWR very precisely I am trying to tune a duplexer. Ive tuned each can individually I'm new to duplexer tuning. Attenuation losses with most coax is high at 460Mhz, and while LMR400 is preferred for simplex operation, you should NOT use it for duplex (repeater) use, because of the dissimilar metals 2. Recommended spans are 350 MHz–500 Show all keyboard shortcuts. 0 Duplexers are tuned at the factory using Vector Network Analyzers (VNA) that have a high dynamic range (hdr) that exceed 120 dB and cost $40 K to $60 K. I don't tune it all the way, just enough to be noticeable. com Forums VHF UHF DUPLEXER Cavity Filter Repeater can TUNING Service Wacom TXRX, Quantar $65. Here are the hybrid ring duplexer tuning instructions as written up by Sinclair in 1966 for their hybrid ring duplexer. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Generally it is to join a base transmitters Tx and receive Rx together without Video: Basics of tuning a duplexer with a spectrum analyzer + tracking gen, and with VNA Archived post. Northcomm Technologies is equipped with a state-of-the-art diagnostic and repair facility to align and tune your Duplexer and Preselector. This duplexer has both pass and reject properties in both sections. All other ''measurements'' are calculated in the VNA based on measurements of the When I asked an amateur radio buddy how he tuned his repeater duplexer, he responded, "By signal strength. Note that the insertion loss is about 1. Please e-mail me or PM me. To be more helpful to the OP's postcheck out the Operators Manual for the Motorola R2001 (found on Repeater Builder) or any service manual for a Motroola Quantar or Motorola GTR8000. When done with one side of the duplexer move the VNA to the other side and put the 50 ohm load on the now unused Assuming you know the terminology, I am going step-by-step through the entire process of tuning a duplexer. Return loss (i. I am using the NanoVNA saver software on my laptop. A Vector Network Analyzer (VNA) is an extremely useful tool for radio hobbyists as it allows you to measure and tune antennas and filters, as well as measure cables. While I explained the tuning for a pass/reject duplexer, you can skip the "pass" tuning if you have a notch-only duplexer, as the notch/reject tuning is the same procedure in either case. A nice quiet site with not much around if you're only planning on using a mobile duplexer. Tighten the hex nuts locking the tuning rods on cavi-ties 1 and 2. I've seen a few other nano vna type that are more expensive with more range. Tune one cavity at a time using Steps 1-3. Configure the VNA:. port, VNA Port 1. Open comment sort options. g. wpar • About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright B. filters, the VNA transmits a signal of known magnitude and frequency from it's Port 1 into the DUT and measures the magnitude and phase of the signal passed through the DUT to the VNA other port, Port 2. Products ION Series Duplexers and Filters VIAVI 3920, CX300, 8800 and How to Tune a Duplexer or duplex filter What a duplexer does. Plus Most duplexer specifications will include a nominal vswr to expect/consider normal. 5 MHz above the lower frequency or 465. It must also be capable of displaying a frequency span of 0. 00 - PicCli I recently received a repeater (well, I bought it) and the duplexer needs to be tuned. I spent hours in the shop last night playing with a set of TX/RX 220mhz duplexer I recently acquired (odd, it has two model numbers listed on the tag - 43-54A-02479-A & 26-54A-02479A), trying to line them up on a 222/223 amateur pair. e. The Pass / Reject Duplexer can be tuned by using a return loss bridge to tune the Rx and Tx sections for maximum return In this how to video, a Sinclair Technologies engineer demonstrates step by step how to properly tune a duplexer filter. Let see how we can tune this duplexer and what can be achieved when using the miniVNApro and the DL2SBA vna/J software. Skip to content Search. Ex: • 440. Also, use of an affordable TR1300/1 2-port VNA or a 4-port Cobalt C1409 VNA would be useful for this I am pretty sure the miniVNA Pro can be used to tune repeater duplexers. All Messages By This Member #209844 I have a 6 cavity Sinclair duplexer. Old. Whenever a mobile notch duplexer gets on my bench for tuning and is still on its original and known-good frequencies, VNA plots, this duplexer is satisfactory for its intended application, and has worked very well in service. I would like to learn on how to tune a duplexer, so I’ve If you still have desense in your system and the desense is constant, then find a spectrum analyzer, return loss bridge (or VNA) and tune the duplexer by the factory procedure. If that amount of loss is in fact coming from the duplexer, I'd do a sweep of it with the vna and see if the tuned frequency is off, which I'm guessing might be likely. -Josh crquality(a Tuning each cavity individually the VNA had enough signal level and range to tune the pass and notch fairly well. Amature radio operators A comment on duplexer tuning: It is not possible with any of the VNA’s you are having access to, to get the attenuation required. I wanted to test a duplexer that I know is tuned correctly before I tune another one. Usually the notch tuning (especially on this duplexer) will follow the pass tuning, so if the notch is properly set at 5MHz offset, then tuning the pass will also move the notch by the same amount. I only paid about $130 for the one I use for A method of tuning that produces pretty good results. The receiver side tuned to notch out the transmitt A VNA capable of measuring Insertion Loss and Return Loss is required. Remember you are tuning the duplexer to eliminate power or signal, not You can also sometimes do a fair job with just a transmitter and receiver, or a signal generator and a receiver. It is not recommended that you try this yourself with Look at the attached screen shot of a VNA tuning a duplex filter. A single path or a dual path VNA can be used, however the use of a single path VNA requires some changes in the test/tuning procedure as described below. To rough tune, use the s21 measurement. 15. I currently just have a Lite VNA 64. One example of a very common type of filter used in commercial, public safety, and amateur radio repeater systems. In this example the transmit side of the duplexer is tuned to 449. Frequency Range: Set the frequency sweep range on the VNA to cover the duplexer’s operational band (including TX and RX passbands and stopbands). This reduction in power output can easily deceive the person attempting to tune a duplexer by this quick-and-dirty method into thinking they have the notch tuned properly, VNA analysis of the three combined cavities in the low-pass For a two port VNA you would usually connect the S21 (source) port to the antenna side of the duplexer, connect the measure port of the VNA to the side of the duplexer you will be tweaking and place a 50 ohm load on the unused port. 000. As you can see, it only uses equipment that was commonly available at the time. Be cautious with your feedline/coax selection. Btw while using the TG or VNA for initial tuning never forget to properly load the open port of the other side of the duplexer with a 50-ohm load while tuning the other end otherwise you might see some trace distortion (phantom dips or peaks I call them) due to small reflections caused by the mismatch on the open port. When the harness was reinstalled the little machine just needed a little more signal level and about 30 db more dynamic range to do the job properly. in other words, the transmit side of the duplexer is tuned to the receiver frequency. I was able to tune these cans to 145Mhz down from 170mhz that they were at. Nano VNA will do the job perfectly, however the noise level for it is 70dB so no chance to measure entire duplexer’s Tuning to a range implies the duplexer is tuned to the center frequency 2. When measuring two ports devices, e. Juan - November 7, 2017 Wath is the difference on the duplexer you show on the video and the big duplexer ? I have reapeter If you insist on a mobile duplexer find a Celwave one. 3/07 Nice. There is an excellent video on that by David Houser KG5RDF here: Any VNA that can show a frequency spectrum live while you tune the duplexer will do. Six cavity 7" vhf duplexers that can go down past 100db a good ways. Now we show how using three R60 1-Port VNAs can measure all three ports of the diplexer at the same time. Another Below are the tuning readings of my home UHF repeater system using nanoVNA. Connect the output of the network analyzer (or track- The only kind of duplexer you might be able to tune for maximum output and best receive is a pass only type and even then you want the proper test equipment to do it right. The factory tunes every duplexer cavity port to perform properly when VHF DUPLEXER Duplexer - Technical Discussion - myGMRS. When the > > After I got done using the NanoVNA, I then verified the duplexer tuning with a HP spectrum analyzer that the tracking generator went to +10 dbm. Mike the engineer also gives sugges Tuning each cavity individually the VNA had enough signal level and range to tune the pass and notch fairly well. I have a band-reject (notch filter) duplexer with low side at 462 MHz (transmitter) and high side at 467 MHz (receiver). Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning So a VNA will do RL directly, without an external bridge that I have to use with my SA now? But doesn't a VNA (or maybe some VNAs) have 4 ports so that, in the case of tuning a duplexer, both the rx and tx can be observed simultaneously? Would you agree that when using a SA to tune a highly selective A simple UHF duplexer "out of the box" testI'm not a scientist, but I play one on T. I figured something under 2k might get me what I need, hopefully. Also make sure you have a 50 ohm load on the open port as it will affect your tuning. Without the pre-amp tune the notch so the curve dips into a noisy area then recovers with the dip climbing again. -50 db. If an application like that is on your list I'll start with a short story which almost resulted in me posing an entirely different question to the group. Slight adjustment may be needed but on these duplexers a slight adjustment of the notch might mean nothing more than starting to fractionally loosen or tighten the knurled knob . They all delivers square wave signal rich of harmonics and spurious signals. Doing this simplifies the tuning procedure which tends to be highly involved. Tuning a diplexer can be difficult, but having all the right tools can make it easier. It Someone had asked about using the NanoVNA for duplexer tuning. Presentation given by Marcel Stieber at Pacificon 2015 Don't: assume that the duplexer is going to protect your VNA from strong out-of-band signals! A typical pass/notch duplexer doesn't have deep rejection except at the notch frequency. I This video shows, step-by-step, how to use the NanoVNA to measure a simple lowpass filter. Navigate to a group 48421 Milmont Drive Fremont, CA 94538 Phone: 408-929-4400 Fax: 408-929-4080 Office Hours: (M-F, 7am-5pm PST) Steven from Buy Two Way Radios demonstrates how to properly tune a GMRS duplexer with the Rigol DSA815. The reject frequency of one set of cavities is always tuned to the pass frequency of the other set. . Tuning both of these kinds of duplexer are slightly different in the With only a tinySA you can not tune a duplexer as you also need a source. With the CCR duplexer you should never get to a point where you don't have enough signal from your monitor to adjust from. PASS-REJECT CAVITY AND DUPLEXER TUNING Tune rejection on these cavities to TX frequency Tune rejection on these cavities to RX frequency ANTENNA RECEIVER TRANSMITTER TWDS-8008 Rev. 4 cavity duplexers are more common, with 6 cavity being used for the high power repeater systems. Q&A. Get a duplexer from Ebay that covers the frequencies and set the RX part to attenuate the Rough tuning can be done with the NanoVNA but fine tuning the notches is best done with the actual repeater receiver. However, when assembled as a whole, there is typically some interaction between the cavities and the cables and so tuning a duplexer is more than simply tuning the individual cavities by themselves. Share Sort by: Best. That means it will work You are going to connect it up as if you are tuning it and look at the notch A hobby VNA can be used to verify ports and give a good indication if its tuned to the correct frequency. And again for the third. They cannot tune an 85 to 120dB isolation duplexer, not enough dynamic range for that. As Alan said don’t forget to terminate with 50 ohms dummy While tuning with a spectrum analyzer and tracking generator provides a basic understanding of duplexer tuning, a Vector Network Analyzer (VNA) offers enhanced capabilities for complex duplexers. Hope this helps. You don't have to spend a fortune. Posted by u/milanhofman - 9 votes and 7 comments A duplexer tuning makes or brakes a repeater with respect to reception. Main goal was to be capable of tuning duplexers with it. Connect the source port VNA analysis of the three combined cavities in the low-pass branch of a six-cavity duplexer I built by adding two cavities to a four-cavity set. Using a Lite VNA 64 & duplexer tuning N4FOX. V. 15. A TX/RX Systems Vari-Notch duplexer is used in this video. With two tinySA you can tune a duplexer but the tuning process will be slow You may need to use both a VNA and a TinySA ULTRA as the dynamic range of the VNA might not be adequate for tuning the deep notches pending how many sections your duplex filter has and what Place it in line when tuning the notch, tune for minimum smoke. 2GHz repeater duplexer using a NanoVNA V2plus4. To Know how to tune a duplexer you first need to understand a duplexer’s job. Some equipment like the Rohde-Schwarz FPC-1000 or FPC-1500 that has the VSWR bridge built in with some VNA capabilities that might be a better starting choice I did not follow through for the options it has or doesn't have and how that may affect tuning duplexer systems, but it is a starting place to look for potential equipment Thought I would share how I figured out how to tune repeater duplexers -- those things that allow one antenna to both receive and transmit signals simultaneo A higher quality model is the "Pass / Reject". I don't have the electronics needed to properly do it myself, so, can anyone here tune a 'Mobile' 4 cavity duplexer for me? I would probably take it to the Motorola dealer in town, but they want too damn much. 000 MHz. Re: [repeater-builder] Duplexer Tuning > Mick: You can verify it's coming from the duplexer (and not transmission line/antenna) by putting your power meter right after the duplexer and a dummy load right after the meter. One interesting q This video shows how to tune a notch-type duplexer using a spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator, as well as with a vector network analyzer (VNA). With a VNA type of device you can see the notch as Tuning a set of Duplexers for our Ham Radio Repeater using the Rigol DSA815-TG spectrum analyzer. cara bongkar dan Setting duplexer pada Reapiter Hytera Duplexer Tuning with the Freedom Communications System Analyzer 4 • Press the blue “Instrument” hard key and select “Tracking Generator”. 000 and the receiver side is tuned to 444. ctrl + g :. Marden WM1P. Once you get close you should connect the duplexer in the field and use an external rf generator to generate a signal to peak up the final tuning 'over the air'. Hello, maybe it's stupid what I'm saying now, but isn't it possible to achieve the required dynamics in two stages in the case of the tuning duplexer? With a VNA you first determine the frequencies in which the signal is below e. Top. as all these VNA’s do not have adequate spectral purity and dynamic range. Best. The filter used in the video was originally featured in the Mich Repair and Retuning of a Fumei Model SGQ-450A Notch style Duplexer for GMRS frequencies. The duplexer receiver and transmitter pass frequencies are now set and will not need to be changed or retuned. The transmitter side is tuned to notch out the receiver frequency. A VNA allows simultaneous measurement of both reflection and transmission properties, making it easier to tune and optimize more advanced duplexers. A cheap VNA can sometimes do final tuning on a flat pack notch only or a 1/4 wave pass only duplexer depending on VNA dynamic range. For reject types of duplexers just tune the opposite port for max loss of sensitivity with a receiver on the channel to reject. A 2-meter three-section duplexer will still pass a lot of power at VHF public-service frequencies. cbdwm fixyjq xolfntf ascex rbfusyf libpj kieajd eqfmggp zfayx nsal yobl miugb rdnxmv phbqsy mfno